Installing Galatia font; sorting issue

Question

Unless I’m mistaken, Galatia is the Greek font of choice for ParaTExt. I just got a new computer and am setting it up. I installed ParaTExt and noticed that the Greek font wasn’t what I was used to. I installed Galatia SIL (v. 2.1) and selected it in Project > Language Settings, but there seems to be a ‘sorting’ issue. When I click OK on the Language Settings window I get:

This is the sort order in the Alphabetic Characters tab:
α-Α ά ὰ ᾶ ἁ ἅ ἃ ἇ ἀ ἄ ἂ ἆ ᾳ ᾴ ᾴ ᾷ ᾁ ᾅ ᾃ ᾇ ᾀ ᾄ ᾂ ᾆ
β-Β
γ-Γ
δ-Δ
ε-Ε έ ὲ ἑ ἕ ἐ ἔ ἓ
ζ-Ζ
η-Η ή ὴ ῆ ἡ ἥ ἣ ἧ ἠ ἤ ἢ ἦ ῃ ῄ ῂ ῇ ᾑ ᾕ ᾓ ᾗ ᾐ ᾔ ᾒ ᾖ
θ-Θ
ι-Ι ί ὶ ῖ ἱ ἵ ἷ ἰ ἴ ἶ ϊ ΐ ῒ ἳ
κ-Κ
λ-Λ
μ-Μ
ν-Ν
ξ-Ξ
ο-Ο ό ὸ ὁ ὅ ὃ ὀ ὄ ὂ
π-Π
ρ-Ρ ῥ ῤ
σ-Σ ς
τ-Τ
υ-Υ ύ ὺ ῦ ὑ ὕ ὓ ὗ ὐ ὔ ὒ ὖ ϋ ΰ ῢ
φ-Φ
χ-Χ
ψ-Ψ
ω-Ω ᾥ ᾣ ᾧ ᾠ ᾤ ᾢ ᾦ ώ ὼ ῶ ὡ ὥ ὣ ὧ ὠ ὤ ὢ ὦ ῳ ῴ ῲ ῷ ᾡ

Has someone else run into this? Do you know how to fix it?
Thanks,

Paul

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Answer 1

Dear Paul,

I hope to have time to take a look at this further, but here are two points
in the right direction.

1.  The font is not the problem. Changing the font in your Language
   

Settings box made Paratext review the established sort order. That sort
order was set originally in Paratext 6 and Paratext’s rules for sort orders
have changed since then but Paratext doesn’t worry about it unless the
Language Settings menu is altered. (Since that is the case, it is a
reportable bug. You shouldn’t have to try and fix the sort order of the
Greek resource language. Go ahead and report it via the Help menu. I find
the Help team very responsive.) Meanwhile, here is some more info about it.

2.  While Paratext allows composite characters (characters which
   

underlying have two Unicode values) it doesn’t allow for capitalizing them
uniquely. For example kp/Kp is not allowed. You just list kp and the
capitalization comes from the k/K. (So even if you don’t have “k” you must
list it to provide capitalization for Kp.) Many characters with tone or
other diacritics are underlyingly two Unicode values because there is no
single Unicode character available.

3.  While you are not using capitalization much here, I do see a
   

non-standard usage a-A instead of a/A (pardon the character change). You
should make sure that that is defined somewhere or try switching out the –
with /.

4.  Somewhere in the a line, Paratext thinks there is a duplicate. But
   

it is quite possible that if you fixed the a line, Paratext would then
complain about the next vowel line. This duplicate is the part I might have
time to check out if I have time this afternoon.

5.  If all else fails and you don’t get a timely help response (I quite
   

expect that you will get help very soon except that the upcoming workshop
might have put everyone on overload), there is a “fudge” you can write me
about off list next week as I’d rather not publish fudges.

Blessings,

Shegnada J.

Language Technology and Publishing Coordinator, Nigeria

Text Processing Specialist GPS Dallas

Skype: Shegnada.James.

+[Phone Removed]

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Answer 2

Can you clarify what the “sorting issue” is? To me that list looks like the correct Greek alphabetical order (though there seemed to be a few unattached diacritics)

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Comments

Well, that’s the whole problem–I have no idea what ParaTExt is complaining about. These are the settings that were there when I selected Galatia on the Font tab (the Font field was empty when I first opened Project > Language Settings…) So where they came from or just how they’re wrong is a mystery to me.

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wdavidhj:

Can you clarify what the “sorting issue” is? To me that list looks like the correct Greek alphabetical order (though there seemed to be a few unattached diacritics)

Sorry, the emailed version of this posting, to which I was replying, when displayed on my phone, did not include your screenshot. Since you made no other reference to the screenshot, I was confused as to what your problem was.

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Answer 3

Paul,

Selecting the font used by the Source Language project (Greek and Hebrew) is a special case, and is often unaffected by what font you may choose in the Language Settings dialog. For Greek, set the font by opening the Source language text to a NT passage, then go to View > Font and Color settings, and select the desired font for Word and for Lemma. For Hebrew, go to an Old Testament passage and do the same thing. (If Font and Color Settings do not appear under the View menu, it is probably because the Source language text is not the currently active project – the last project you clicked in.

You should be able to set Galatia as your Greek font without changing anything in the language properties, which won’t trigger the sorting sequence error messages.

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Answer 4

Dear Paul,

There is a duplicate ᾴ In the first line of your list, the 16th character
in that line (I’ve highligheted it below). Delete that and you should have
no further problem. It actually occurs in my language settings for Greek
also.

Blessings,

Shegnada J.

Language Technology and Publishing Coordinator, Nigeria

Text Processing Specialist GPS Dallas

Skype: Shegnada.James.

+[Phone Removed]

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Comments

Shegnada:

(I’ve highligheted it below)

Lorna:

I highlighted them in purple.

Did you guys intend to include extra text, or a screenshot which didn’t make it into the posting that we can see?

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My reply contained the forwarded text from a previous message (as does this
message). It didn’t make it through the Paratext system. I guess Paratext
removes the forwarded message. I suspect if I had copied the text inline it
would have come through okay.
Lorna

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In my post, I copied the offending character into the text of my email and
highlighted the offending character in the text of YOUR email that I had
replied to.

Blessings,

Shegnada J.

Language Technology and Publishing Coordinator, Nigeria

Text Processing Specialist GPS Dallas

Skype: Shegnada.James.

+[Phone Removed]

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Lorna:

My reply contained the forwarded text from a previous message (as does this
message).

So it didn’t come through this time, either. What exactly do you mean by “contains the forwarded text”? Do you mean it’s below your reply, with a forward header in between (showing the sender, recipient, etc. of the earlier msg that you’re forwarding)? or do you mean it’s quoted above or interspersed with your reply? – many email clients will indent this, or even put a coloured line in the left margin (years back the “>” character was used as an arrow before each line of quoted text).

Shegnada:

In my post, I copied the offending character into the text of my email and
highlighted the offending character in the text of YOUR email that I had
replied to.

Do both of you interact with this support system by email only? Have a look at the Web version: the emails you’re replying to are stripped out if they’re below your reply, in order not to clutter the Web view. In the Web interface, you can quote what you’re replying to by highlighting it first (and you can get even more flexibility using the “markdown” codes that the Web interface recognises.

(If that isn’t what happened, sorry!)

I’ve been using the Web interface ever since I started using support.paratext.org; I’ve never given much thought to how it handles replies that come via email. It’s intended to be primarily Web-based, so it’s not surprising that interacting with emailed replies is second-best .

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Do both of you interact with this support system by email only? Have a look at the Web version: the emails you’re replying to are stripped out if they’re below your reply, in order not to clutter the Web view. In the Web interface, you can quote what you’re replying to by highlighting it first (and you can get even more flexibility using the “markdown” codes that the Web interface recognises.

I have always used email rather than web for newsgroups because it seems more efficient when the internet connection is very slow or expensive (pay per MB). I assume others are in the same position. I guess we "old-fashioned" users need to learn how to format our replies to the new web-based newsgroups. It makes sense that earlier messages in the thread are truncated when viewing in the Web interface. I selected the above paragraph (if there is one above this) and hit Reply, so that the rest of the message I was replying to was deleted. If I reply below the quoted text does it appear in my message?

Any tips are welcome!


KimB

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Answer 5

I’m seeing different things on different devices (don’t see screenshot
on one device, but I do on another). However, I now see you you have a
duplicate entry with U+1FB3 U+0301 twice. I highlighted them in purple.

Lorna

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Answer 6

@ Shegnada and Lorna,

Thanks for the tip! I should be able to find it now that you’ve alerted me to it. Unfortunately, I can’t see a screenshot for either of your responses, neither in the e-mail notifications I get from this site nor at the support.paratext.org site itself (if you included one, that is [I’m trying to use this site for questions rather than the e-mail ‘group’, as per wdavidhj’s request to do so, but it is obvious that there are certain things about it that do not facilitate ‘ease of use’…]).

But finding the duplicate may not be necessary–I followed sewhite’s advice and it all came out right!

I’m only left to wonder why there are two places to set a font and why one of them messes up sorting and the other does not… Which raises the question: does the development team really still want bug reports from 7.5, with 8.0 on the horizon?

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Comments

Paul:

Which raises the question: does the development team really still want bug reports from 7.5, with 8.0 on the horizon?

Yes, we do still want reports from 7.5 and 7.6 (but probably not from earlier versions). Although a lot of things have changed going to 8.0, there are more things that have stayed the same and will still work the same way (and thus have the same bugs).
You can leave it up to us to determine whether the bug is worth fixing or not.

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Answer 7

This is the sort order in the Alphabetic Characters tab:
α-Α ά ὰ ᾶ ἁ ἅ ἃ ἇ ἀ ἄ ἂ ἆ ᾳ ᾴ ᾴ ᾷ ᾁ ᾅ ᾃ ᾇ ᾀ ᾄ ᾂ ᾆ

I’ve tried to put in bold the two characters that are identical (characters 15 and 16).

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Comments

I see the bold characters, anon848905. Thanks! I had managed to track them down with Shegnada’s description–I just couldn’t see a screenshot (which her post implied she had provided [also Lorna’s]).

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