Anyone else having PText 7.5 problems on Windows 10 Creators' Update?

Question

A co-worker writes:

“I am experiencing problems with Paratext 7.5 since I updated to Win 10 Creators update. I have about 10 different windows displayed in Paratext and when I want to go from one to another it takes ages and sometimes Paratext even displays a ‘stopped responding’ line on the top.”

Is anyone else having problems with PText 7.5 on Windows 10 Creators’ Update? I know FLEx users are encountering problems on Creators Update.

Thanks.

Answer 1

Just for everyone’s information, we are looking into these problems to see if there is something we can do on our end (as an update to 7.5 and later). However, based on the descriptions of the problem, I’m not very confident that we’ll come up with a workaround.

Comments

Well, we have confirmed that this is a bug in .Net 4.7 - which is included with the Windows 10 Creator’s Update. This problem will show up even on non-Win10 machines that upgrade to .Net 4.7.

This, unfortunately, means that there isn’t anything that we can do to fix it except to tell you all to avoid .Net 4.7 (and the Creator’s Update) for now, if possible.

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So, other than avoiding the Windows 10 Creators Update, is there anything else that may be done to avoid getting .NET 4.7? What other applications does it install with? I found a tool, by the way, that will easily tell you what versions of .NET you have installed: https://www.raymond.cc/blog/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=1741.

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Are you sure that .NET 4.7 is the problem? I tried to download and install the standalone installer, but was not able to notice any change in performance in Paratext 8.0 or Paratext 7.5 after the installation.

The tool available at http://www.asoft-ware.com/download.php?id=11 seems to be more reliable for detecting installed .NET versions, by the way. If it shows that you have .NET Framework 4.7 installed, you may uninstall it by going to Start > Settings > Update & security > Update history > Uninstall updates. Then go to the Microsoft Windows section, right-click on Update for Microsoft Windows (KB3186568), and then click Uninstall.

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anon716631:

Are you sure that .NET 4.7 is the problem? I tried to download and install the standalone installer, but was not able to notice any change in performance in Paratext 8.0 or Paratext 7.5 after the installation.

Yes, I am 99.999% positive as I tried it on my development machine. The performance problem only shows up when moving from one project window to another inside the main window. I would guess there are other performance problems caused by the same problem in the .Net code, but I’m not sure what they would be.

Also, if you have a fast machine, it may not be too noticeable. On my machine it takes about 1-2 seconds to switch (Windows 8.1 with .Net 4.7 - average machine 4 years ago). It switches instantly on the same machine with .Net 4.6.

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I just tried out the same thing on a slower machine and have come to the same conclusion as you. It seems to affect PT8 and PT7 in the same way.

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On a test machine Win10 Creators’ Update (and has no option to revert), I installed the current Pro Insiders’ Preview (version 1703, build 16193.1001). The NET version is still 4.7 (4.7.02505, to be precise). I had hoped there’d be a newer release of NET that might fix the problem we’re having. I’m still getting the PText creep problem.

BTW, does anyone know if this NET bug is also what’s causing FLEx to crash?

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@anon716631: I wasn’t able to revert to .NET 4.6x under Creators’ Update. MS has this on the Developers Network pages:

“Because the 4.x versions of the .NET Framework are in-place updates, you cannot install an earlier version of the .NET Framework 4.x on a system with that already has a later version installed. For example, on a system with Windows 10 Creators Update, you cannot install the .NET Framework 4.6.2, since the .NET Framework 4.7 is preinstalled with the operating system.”

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As I was updating my Windows 10 Home v. 1607 today, I discovered that this update was part of the automatic updates being installed: Microsoft .NET Framework 4.7 for Windows 10 Version 1607 and Windows Server 2016 for x64 (KB3186568).

So what do we do now to avoid the problems this update causes for Paratext? Rolling back from the Creators Update does not help much as you’ll now also get .NET 4.7 as an automatic update if you are the 1607 version of Windows 10. It is possible to uninstall it, but I guess it will just keep coming back as long as automatic updates are enabled.

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Just discovered that Microsoft has given a description of how to block the automatic installation of .NET Framework 4.7:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ph/help/4024204/how-to-temporarily-block-installation-of-the-net-framework-4-7

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You can do the change via a .reg-file that you can distribute to other users. It’s basically a text file that’s renamed to .reg. E.g. “Block-NetFrameWork47.txt” renamed to “Block-NetFrameWork47.reg”.

The file needs to have the following content:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\WU]
"BlockNetFramework47"=dword:00000001

To execute this the users need to have administrative rights and have to conform they really want to do this change to the system (about three times “I agree”/“Yes”/“OK” or similar).

To undo the changes (i.e. allow installing of .NET 4.7) create and execute a file with the following content:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\WU]

Answer 2

Yes, I am experiencing the same thing. My computer updated over the weekend and yesterday while preparing for a consultant check, it would take 3 to 4 seconds to switch to a different project window in Paratext 7.5. I also tried 7.6 and it did the same thing. I opened my task manager for Windows 10 and it showed that each time I clicked on a different window the CPU would run at about 30% power for those 3 to 4 seconds.

By the way, my computer is quite new an i7 processor and a SSD hard drive. So, I don’t think that my computers processing power is the issue.

anon913665

Comments

Thank you, anon913665. I’ve passed along your reply to my co-worker. I think it would be a good idea for people to revert to the Windows 10 Anniversary Edition (version 1607) if they still have that option. If users of Ptext and FLEx are encountering problems with the Creators’ Update, that’s not good for us.

That said, based on the symptoms you described, it appears that this Ptext problem is different from the FLEx problem. FLEx crashes outright under Win 10 Creators’ Update.

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@RSquared: Thanks, RSquared, for this input. Maybe there’s a difference between an online update and the MCT option, though that seems strange.

My friend had to restore from an image, as Windows 10 CU had apparently zapped his Windows 10 AU restore points. Also, he was beyond the period (10 days?) during which you can revert to the previous version.

My advice to anyone using FLEx and Paratext is to stick with Win10 Anniversary Update, at least for the foreseeable future.

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It is possible to delay these updates for Windows 10:

ZDNet

Windows 10 update version 1903: Act fast to delay this big upgrade | ZDNet

Each time Microsoft rolls out a major upgrade to Windows 10, you have the option to wait a few months before you install it on PCs Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise. But you have to act quickly.

.

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Thanks, John+Wickberg. I used this option on our computers after the FLEx crashes showed up. I’d actually like to extend the delay to six months or so.

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This does not work for those of us Windows 10 Home. The only option I’m aware of to delay the Creators Update in that situation is to set your WiFi connection to a metered connection (under Settings > Network & Internet > Wi-Fi > > Set as metered connection). But that option is not available if you are on a wired connection. If that is your situation, I think the only option is to disable all Windows updates under Windows Services, not a desirable option if you want to stay up to date with other Windows updates.

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It is helpful to be warned. The Creators Update has not yet been rolled out in Denmark for my Home edition and maybe not in some other countries. As long as I am at home, I will check when it comes and roll back if it still has the problem. But soon I will be in the field for 3 weeks, so I have set that particular Wi-Fi I plan to use to metered to prevent any updates while I am there. You can set your different Wi-Fi connections separately. I had to select Administer known networks (or whatever it is called in English), select the relevant one, click on Properties and then turn on metered connection. I have previously disabled Windows updates via Control Panel and Administration, Computer Administration, Services, Windows Update change from Manual to Disabled in the Properties. But it is cumbersome to do this and one has to remember to activate it again.

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I think the best strategy for dealing with the Windows 10 Creators Update is to actually install it first and then immediately roll back to the previous Windows version (by going to Start > Settings > Update & security > Recovery). That will defer any installation of this update for at least four months, no matter what version of Windows 10 you are and no matter what type of Internet connection you are on (wired or wireless). This strategy will also enable you to get all other Windows updates. When you roll back, you will also be given an opportunity to tell Microsoft why you are doing so, increasing the probability that they will fix this problem.

Even if the Creators Update has not yet been rolled out in your country, anybody can download it from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10. If you want the Danish version of it, go to https://www.microsoft.com/da-dk/software-download/windows10 and click the Opdater nu button.

On Windows 10 Home, the Metered Connection option is only available if you are using a wireless connection, and it has to be specified for each wireless connection you are using if you are switching between several connections. I’m also afraid that this option may also block some other important updates.

Answer 3

Hi!

This seems to be a problem with the latest Win10 Upgrade and Fonts behavior, since ParaTExt is no more seeing some of the fonts you are using.

Now, what to do? Try this:

Go to “Control Panel\Appearance and Personalization\Fonts\Font settings”, and

1- Uncheck the box just beside “Hide fonts based on language settings”;
2- You’ll certainly want to keep the ability to install fonts using a shortcut! Leave that box checked;
3- When you are done, Restart your computer and see what happens!

Hope this will work for you!

I faced a similar problem with other software after I upgraded my Win10 to its recent version, and got these solutions on Internet.

Blessings,

anon995533 M.

Comments

@ anon995533,

I sent your instructions to my co-worker, and he said this didn’t fix his problem. Thanks anyway, though. Perhaps this will work for someone else.

-anon059953

Answer 4

For users of Win 10 Home, the alternative to disabling updates or setting a WiFi connection as a metered connection is to roll back the Windows Creator Update after it arrives. Do this via: Start Menu > Settings > Recovery > Go back to an earlier build. This will take some time and is best done as soon as possible after the update. “System Restore” points are removed by the Win 10 creators update, so that will not work.

Rolling back to a prior version will prevent creators update from downloading for several months, but it will return eventually. Hopefully at that time it will be improved and developers and vendors will have had a chance to fix the issues it seems to create. It is reported to have caused problems with many other applications and hardware drivers.

Comments

Unfortunately for me I did not revert Windows 10 within the time limit. Now Paratext 7.5 and 8.0 are very slowly. I have to click on a window in Paratext and wait for the focus to change. It has slowed my work down substantially.

Answer 5

Is there a way to sign up for beta releases of .NET 4.7.x so that we can install them to see if the glitch is fixed?

Answer 6

And here’s another .NET question: with previous versions of Windows, multiple versions of .NET could co-exist, right? Is this no longer possible with Win 10 Creators Update?

Comments

You can have several versions of .Net on your machine - I have .Net 1.0,
1.1, 2.0, 3.5 and 4.6,

Since .Net 4.0, updates to .Net have be “in place” updates. This means you
can’t have both .Net 4.7 and .Net 4.6 since 4.7 will replace 4.6.

There are some advantages to the “in place” update since you get the
benefits of fixes to the .Net 4 family without having to get a new version
of the application, but in this case we are seeing the downside of the "in
place’ update.

John+Wickberg
Paratext Support

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@John+Wickberg: Thank you for the helpful clarification. Does this mean that if MS pushes .NET 4.7 to Windows 7 we’ll be having this same problem there, too?

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Yes - we did testing here by updating a Windows 8 machine to .Net 4.7 and
got the same problem.

John+Wickberg

Answer 7

I recently helped a user who had to rollback Windows 10 creator because of a driver conflict. We ran into a problem with the rollback that was ultimately caused by Norton Antivirus. After the rollback the system was stuck in a perpetual reboot/repair loop.
The linked to answers.microsoft.com forum thread provided the solution for the problem which was to disable the pre-boot malware check, boot windows and reinstall Norton. It looks like the rollback itself actually worked, but Norton couldn’t handle it.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_repair/microsoft-surface-windows-10-fatal-boot-error/e35cdbf1-b859-41b0-95f8-b4965be209a9

My suggestion for anyone who wants to rollback from Windows 10 Creators and has Norton, uninstall Norton first.

Comments

Well I have the same problem with Pt8 and PT7 and Paratext Creators Update has not yet installed. I notice the incredible slow down when switching Windows after the PT8 update to .100.10. Around the same time there was a very big cumulative update, as well as a Features Update- used ALL my credit and more on my metered connection. That was right after the big scare where hospitals and businesses were hacked worldwide.
So for me the slowdown was not due to Windows 10 Creators Update. I have been invited to install it, but it won’t do it automatically, as I am on a metered connection. Should I roll back the Features Update?
I have just discovered now under the Advanced Update options that one can defer a features update for the number of days you designate. That could keep the Creators Update from automatically updating on wireless connections, I would think?

Answer 8

Yes, that is the version I have. I certainly don’t want to roll back the Security Update! But in the history, I see Features Update, which says: Feature update to Windows 10, version 1703, Successfully installed May 16, 2017. When I click on the date, I get this message: ‘Install the latest update for Windows 10: the Windows 10 Creators Update.’ So maybe I should roll back this Features Update?

Answer 9

Disclaimer: These comments are from a frustrated (though longtime) Windows user, not from a genuine IT person. I post them in hopes that someone can confirm or correct them.

(1) As others have noted, you have only 10 days to roll back to a previous version of Windows 10. Some people have been forward-thinking enough to rename the Windows.old folder (where your previous Windows installation is stored) and another hidden folder ($WINDOWS~.BT) so that Windows doesn’t automatically delete these at the end of 10 days. Obviously, this would have to be done within the 10-day period, and it also requires that you have sufficient disk space (which is why Windows deletes them after 10 days). I haven’t tried this, but it makes sense to me. Here’s a link for this workaround (written when the limit was 30 days, not 10 as it is now):

https://win10faq.com/extend-the-30-day-limit-to-go-back-to-your-previous-version-of-windows/

(2) Apart from the standard version roll-back option, you may have longer to uninstall specific updates that have caused problems for you, though this may not help with an update that changes the Windows version. There are several ways to uninstall updates, described here:

tenforums.com

Uninstall Windows Update in Windows 10

How to Uninstall a Windows Update in Windows 10

I read of instances where someone was able to use the command-line method to uninstall a troublesome update that was no longer displayed in the list of installed updates. I can’t verify that.

N.B.: If the update in question was the version update from 1607 to 1703 and the 10 days had passed, I’d be surprised if you could uninstall that update. That option wasn’t available on my system, but maybe others will have a different experience. In my case, the Windows Update history was reset when the version changed from 1607 (Anniversary) to 1703 (Creators).

(3) And you’re probably aware that moving from version 1607 to version 1703 probably (definitely?) deletes your existing system restore points, which removes that otherwise-attractive option.

Answer 10

It looks like we have gotten a response from Microsoft about this issue

Thank you for reporting this issue. We are fixing this bug in the next release of .Net Framework (4.7.1) as well as working on a “hot fix” for .Net 4.7.