What resources are NOT in Paratext 8?

Question

There are many resources that are in ParaTExt 7.5 that are not in ParaTExt 8 yet (as of March 7, 2017). I have not yet found a comprehensive list of what those resources are, nor have I found explicit information about when those resources will become available in the DBL. Things like Translation Notes really should be there, folks! Can anyone tell us what’s going on with this, and what the hold-up might be? Thanks.

Answer 1

The items in this list that have “No” in the “Available in PT8” column:
https://app.smartsheet.com/b/publish?EQBCT=d45dc942d6d54ec2be58fb4868f9f9d7

Comments

anon150053:

The items in this list that have “No” in the “Available in PT8” column:https://app.smartsheet.com/b/publish?EQBCT=d45dc942d6d54ec2be58fb4868f9f9d7

So less than a quarter of what was available before (!), and just over 40% of the previous English resources. As it stands, the resources are decimated.

While I imagine it’s a breach of copyright, I think many will be tempted to make copy-projects of their favourite resources, and pull these into PT8.

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wdavidhj:

While I imagine it’s a breach of copyright, I think many will be tempted to make copy-projects of their favourite resources, and pull these into PT8.

It is a breach of copyright and thus illegal. Please do not talk about doing it on this site.

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anon291708:

It is a breach of copyright and thus illegal. Please do not talk about doing it on this site.

Sorry.

In that case, is there someone who can clarify the minutiae of the copyright agreements? To me, the irony is this: I can run PT 7.6 and PT 8 side-by-side, and in 7.6 I can see all the resources I’m so familiar with. But to do what I described would be illegal.

Or … will the licence for many of these resources also be rescinded for PT 7? In that case, how will those responsible ensure that all users delete them from PT 7?

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I ‘own’ the ESV version in Logos, but that doesn’t mean I have the right to copy it out of that program and create an epub from it for use on my phone. Copyright often is based on the form the information is in (like the program it is in) and not the information itself. It may not make sense to you that you have the right to use a resource in PT7 but don’t have access to the same resource in PT8, but that’s the way copyright law works.

Actually, back to Logos, it would be illegal to copy a book out of Logos and put it into PT. Sure I’d love to do that and not have to bounce back and forth between programs, but I couldn’t defend it as legal in any way. The situation with PT7 and PT8 is the same, except that the two programs happen to be developed by the same team. I don’t know what the agreement they made with the publishers was, but presumably it was written down that they would need to renegotiate the copyrights when they did a major version upgrade.

I have to admit that sometimes I disagree with the way copyright law works (I have strong opinions about copyright of Christian texts in general), but I do think we have to submit to the fallen governmental authorities we’re under.

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Hi,

At a meeting a two weeks ago in Bangkok, the issue of resources in Paratext 8 as compared to the standard downloadable resources from the Paratext website in Paratext 7 was brought to the attention of Mike Cochran (SIL Director of Software development) and anon397352 Conner (SIL Director of Publishing.) It was explained that the solution of having both Paratext 7 and Paratext 8 at the same time was not an acceptable solution for most users. As a result, Mike asked that a list of standard resources that people are currently using in Paratext 7 and are missing from Paratext 8 (e.g. Net Bible, NLT, ESV, handbooks, etc.) be compiled and he and anon397352 will take up the issue with the appropriate people.

The SIL Language Technology coordinators for each region have canvassed their respective Areas for the resources that people are needing to do their everyday work and have compiled the list for Mike and anon397352.

Please be patient. The problem with the lack of resources is being looked into.

anon397352

SIL Asia Area LT Coordinator

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As the Language Technology and Publishing Coordinator for Nigeria, I was
not asked this question. We very much need the Hausa Common Language Bible
by Bible Society in Nigeria. I’ve requested this via every channel I know.

Blessings,

Shegnada J.

Language Technology and Publishing Coordinator, Nigeria

Text Processing Specialist GPS Dallas

Skype: Shegnada.SIL+LSS+PNG.

+[Phone Removed]

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The Area coordinators were asked (e.g. Kent for Africa, anon848905 for Americas). Yes, the Hausa Bible is on the list.

anon397352

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This sheet is authoritative and we are constantly working to update it.

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I’d like to challenge the thinking that “We cannot upgrade because most of our resources are not available.” I initially thought that way, but I’ve come around to agree that it’s not all that burdensome to resize PT7 and PT8 windows to share the screen, and have them automatically scroll in sync. It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. If the hassle of managing resources in a different program (PT7 or TW Logos) is outweighed by the new features of PT8 (and I believe it is by FAR), why let it be a barrier?

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What size screen are you working on, and how many monitors do you use? It’s not hassle free to open up two versions of Paratext and resize them for those who have more conventional laptop displays. My MTT won’t even open TW and Paratext together. He really wants the resources and the drafting window to be open only in one program. For the sake of “buy in”, it’s a hard sale to convince folks that having to open up two programs to do what they used to be able to do with just one is “progress”. Many of the good features that PT8 has are in the area of project management. That would help me manage the project, but that doesn’t really impact the drafting process in significantly better ways that would be evident to our MTT. So, if I want the benefit of those good management tools in PT8, it can’t be at the cost of making drafting more of a hassle for the MTT.

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+3 for this; thank you for expressing it clearly. A number of the MTTs I work with are still struggling with setting up and using a Combined Text Window, even after 5 years of PT use: If that window gets closed somehow they don't remember how to get it back. We can not make their computer's program/window management any more complicated than it is.

Answer 2

Thanks. But, does anyone know the reason why those resources aren’t available yet? I find it particularly puzzling that SIL resources like TN aren’t available. Why roll out a new software version that gives less in the way of resources? Does anyone know when those resources will be available?

Comments

In order to download something to the DBL you need to be a “DBL archivist”, ie. authorized to do downloading. Authorization means also skills to do it. If you would like to get these rights, you need to talk to the DBL administration, I believe.

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Here is an online form that may be used if you want to upload a resource to the DBL: https://docs.google.com/a/sil.org/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfLaOHQaKaY4TmBiKkGqtHyLI9UlDgiNSiEqCeEb2aC_f-rOg/viewform
But in SIL it is my understanding that DBL submissions have to go through the SIL DBL Curator.

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Hi,

It’s been good to see this discussion. It highlights some of the facts and issues about resources in Paratext 8 quite well. As dhigby shared, a major goal in the PT8 + DBL effort has been to clarify permissions for use of content as resources in Paratext, to make it easier to make content available (and to update content on user’s machines), and to make additional content available. The restriction is that the content needs to be in DBL.

Responding to the matter of local vs official resources – Send/Receive is not really the intended the way to distribute content for resource use. Official resources in Paratext are intentionally locked down much more than a shared project. This is really a maintenance problem too, and for most cases it is the managing organisation who needs to grant permission.

Regarding getting content in DBL – Yes, there is a more centralized approach (but both UBS and WBT have more than one person helping with this). The requirements for placing projects in DBL are much greater than adding someone to the project with Send/Receive. A project must pass a certain set checks, and have an additional set of metadata associated to it (which will all come from the Registry in PT8). It is not that the process is necessarily hard, but that it has tighter requirements. Generally speaking, what goes into DBL (for the most part) must be ‘publishable’ quality (even if the project is only partially complete). In many ways this is a very good thing - because the content can be shared with partners, and because the content is a solid model (in terms of markup / syntax as well as content).

jmkla

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Here is the response I got from the SIL DBL Curator when I asked her about DBL submissions:

If you want to get a text into the DBL, you will need to give me access to consultant-checked, final files for texts as small as individual books or as large as the full Bible through a Paratext Send/Receive. You will also need to supply me with the metadata that should accompany the text. A Resource submission must go through the same schema check during upload as a regular text, so must pass the same requirements.

Process:

1. Run Basic Checks (please use Paratext 7.6 if possible, as you will catch more problems)
2. Create a Project Canon (Project/Project Canon - you may need to hold down the Shift key). Add only the books to the Canon that you want to see published in the DBL, even though there may be additional incomplete books in your project.
3. Make sure that all of the books have abbreviation, short name, long name listed in the Scripture Reference Settings. If you have cross references to books that are not in your Project Canon, the names of those books need to be noted in the Scripture Reference Settings.
4. In Project Properties and Settings, make sure that the “Language” dropdown lists the correct language name, and the “Language Identifier” is the iso code for that language.
5. Add me, Lois Gourley, as an Administrator or Archivist to your project, and do a Paratext Send/Receive.

6a. Complete the metadata information at https://docs.google.com/a/sil.org/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfLaOHQaKaY4TmBiKkGqtHyLI9UlDgiNSiEqCeEb2aC_f-rOg/viewform for each new project that you are authorized to submit to be shared with our Library Card Holders through the DBL.
6b. Complete the Request to Share form at https://docs.google.com/a/sil.org/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScV6cmJvWpTG1X0N-srSBPwapG0tmKBYWHZAPdy1Rm3K6Rz2Q/viewform for texts you would like to share as resources.
6c. Complete the Resource Request form found at https://docs.google.com/a/sil.org/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdcyW8cmxgr_SG6dKb6I2C5CmRTt7iI-LE1h5M6M95I25DWig/viewform for texts that are owned by other organizations that you would like them to share.

Once I see that a new project is listed on a spreadsheet that is populated by the above mentioned form (6a), I will run Basic Checks to make sure everything is in order, and then will upload to the DBL and will license to YouVersion and Bible Search (and any other Library Card Holder you specify).

If one of your Area/Entity’s texts is already in the DBL, and you have completed the Request to Share form (6b), I will mark it for sharing in the DBL.

If you have completed the Resource Request form (6c), I will request that text on your behalf.

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Actually, you can share “local” resources (a colleague’s project, ongoing or completed) simply by passing on a backup of them which people restore to their machine in PT. And a restored project like that can also be migrated. To me, that is a lot more hassle free than using S/R or DBL uploads.

Answer 3

Shegnada,

This went to the area level Language Technology Consultants. I’ve added it to the spreadsheet for you.

Blessings,
anon848905

Answer 4

Should the NET Bible and NLT be changed to “Available in PT8”? I downloaded them in PT8 from the DBL this week. REALLY glad they’re available now!

Thanks,

SIL+LSS+PNG

Comments

Thanks, I’ll update the sheet.

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

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I sure wish information like this wasn’t locked into some ‘cloud’ service thingy… I’ve been waiting over 15 minutes for ‘Smartsheet’ to load the list. Twice I have gotten the message:

“It is taking longer than normal to load Smartsheet. In certain cases, a network or internet anomaly will prevent Smartsheet from loading. Press the Refresh button on your browser to re-load Smartsheet. Please contact Smartsheet.com if this condition persists.”

There’s irony in the request for someone with a poor internet connection to navigate to a website to contact the service provider about connection issues with their site.
Is there another way to access this list? Thanks,
Paul

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Hi Paul,

I’ve created a faster HTML only link: http://publish.smartsheet.com/98487b07b58f4d1aaadc49f4bbf468a5
Just for you!

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Is this just for Paul, or can we use it too?

It loaded MUCH faster over here in PNG.

Thank you dhigby,

SIL+LSS+PNG

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Well, PNG wins… I hope I don’t sound whiny, but how big is the page that the HTML link refers to? I’ve tried three times: first 4 minutes, then 5 minutes, and the third try I’m up to ten minutes, but still nothing. My internet is working, as is evident by that fact that I’ve been able to navigate to the support.paratext.org website (which took three minutes) and send this message.

Still looking for a solution…

Paul

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I see Good News Arabic (GNA93) highlighted in green, but I cannot find it inside of PT8 as a downloadable resource. My license is through SIL Eurasia so I think I should be included in the FOBAI user category.

In general, if there is a resource we think ought to be included, who do we contact to ask about that?

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Apparently when the language was named for this project in the DBL it was
labeled “Standard Arabic” rather than “Arabic Standard” like some of the
others. If you sort by “Full Name” you should be able to locate it under
"Good News Arabic".

This brings up an important issue - the language names are not always the
best way to look for resources. There has already been requests and
discussion for better search/filter capabilities in the download window.

anon848905
Americas Area Language Technology Coordinator
[Email Removed]
[Phone Removed] at JAARS)
[Phone Removed]Cell)
Skype name: anon848905

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Thanks, I found it.

Is this sort of minor mistake–“Standard Arabic” and “Arabic (Standard)”–something we should report inside Paratext, or will it be corrected in some other way?

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I know that the developers have already worked on this, so the feature to
filter results based on word(s) searched for is on its way… Hoping that
it will be released sooner rather than later.

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Mark+P:

Hoping that it will be released sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately, this was pushed to 8.1 because of the amount of code changes needed to implement it (but the coding has already been done).

mnjames:

Is this sort of minor mistake–“Standard Arabic” and “Arabic (Standard)”–something we should report inside Paratext, or will it be corrected in some other way?

We’ve looked into options to standardize the language names inside Paratext by looking at the language codes, but none of the solutions have worked well. A lot of language codes are associated with multiple names, and the language codes in DBL seem to not be correct all the time, either.

I think this means that it has to be fixed in DBL on a case-by-case basis.

Answer 5

The Old Persian Version is available in YouVersion, but not in PT8. It was published in 1895, so must have been out of copyright for about a century. Is there any reason that it’s not been made available in PT8?

Comments

In order for a text to be added to Paratext it must be in the DBL. You can see what is in the DBL by going to: https://thedigitalbiblelibrary.org/whats-inside/

In this case someone would have to add the Old Persian text to the DBL and then share it with Paratext.

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anon848905:

In order for a text to be added to Paratext it must be in the DBL.

If it’s in YouVersion, doesn’t that mean it must be in the DBL?

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wdavidhj:

If it’s in YouVersion, doesn’t that mean it must be in the DBL?

YouVersion does get texts from the DBL and changes them into their internal format for use in their tools, but they don’t exclusively get their resources from the DBL.

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Right, The Old Persian Version is not listed at the link that @anon848905 pointed me to (above).